McCain vs Obama ce soir

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arsenic

Mr.FunkyFunk
Comme la photo avec Obama qui sert la main de McCain et qui va lui mettre une tape sur l'épaule.
Pris à ce moment là, avec les têtes qu'ils font, on dirait que Obama est en train de taper McCain :-D

Tiens sinon hier au gala de charité de l'archevêque de NY, il a été bien marrant le John lors de son speech, l'avais jamais vu comme ça.
 

buchiste

Chops from Outerspace
pitié pitié pitié pas mccain et palin :-(
 
The world's verdict will be harsh if the US rejects the man it yearns for


An America that disdains Obama for his global support risks turning current anti-Bush feeling into something far worse.


The feeling is familiar. I had it four years ago and four years before that: a sinking feeling in the stomach. It's a kind of physical pessimism which says: "It's happening again. The Democrats are about to lose an election they should win - and it could not matter more."

In my head, I'm not as anxious for Barack Obama's chances as I was for John Kerry's in 2004 or Al Gore's in 2000. He is a better candidate than both put together, and all the empirical evidence says this year favours Democrats more than any since 1976. But still, I can't shake off the gloom.

Look at yesterday's opinion polls, which have John McCain either in a dead heat with Obama or narrowly ahead. Given the well-documented tendency of African-American candidates to perform better in polls than in elections - thanks to people who say they will vote for a black man but don't - this suggests Obama is now trailing badly. More troubling was the ABC News-Washington Post survey which found McCain ahead among white women by 53% to 41%. Two weeks ago, Obama had a 15% lead among women. There is only one explanation for that turnaround, and it was not McCain's tranquilliser of a convention speech: Obama's lead has been crushed by the Palin bounce.

So you can understand my pessimism. But it's now combined with a rising frustration. I watch as the Democrats stumble, uncertain how to take on Sarah Palin. Fight too hard, and the Republican machine, echoed by the ditto-heads in the conservative commentariat on talk radio and cable TV, will brand Democrats sexist, elitist snobs, patronising a small-town woman. Do nothing, and Palin's rise will continue unchecked, her novelty making even Obama look stale, her star power energising and motivating the Republican base.

So somehow Palin slips out of reach, no revelation - no matter how jaw-dropping or career-ending were it applied to a normal candidate - doing sufficient damage to slow her apparent march to power, dragging the charisma-deprived McCain behind her.

We know one of Palin's first acts as mayor of tiny Wasilla, Alaska was to ask the librarian the procedure for banning books. Oh, but that was a "rhetorical" question, says the McCain-Palin campaign. We know Palin is not telling the truth when she says she was against the notorious $400m "Bridge to Nowhere" project in Alaska - in fact, she campaigned for it - but she keeps repeating the claim anyway. She denounces the dipping of snouts in the Washington trough - but hired costly lobbyists to make sure Alaska got a bigger helping of federal dollars than any other state.

She claims to be a fiscal conservative, but left Wasilla saddled with debts it had never had before. She even seems to have claimed "per diem" allowances - taxpayers' money meant for out-of-town travel - when she was staying in her own house.

Yet somehow none of this is yet leaving a dent. The result is that a politician who conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan calls a "Christianist" - seeking to politicise Christianity the way Islamists politicise Islam - could soon be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Remember, this is a woman who once addressed a church congregation, saying of her work as governor - transport, policing and education - "really all of that stuff doesn't do any good if the people of Alaska's heart isn't right with God".

If Sarah Palin defies the conventional wisdom that says elections are determined by the top of the ticket, and somehow wins this for McCain, what will be the reaction? Yes, blue-state America will go into mourning once again, feeling estranged in its own country. A generation of young Americans - who back Obama in big numbers - will turn cynical, concluding that politics doesn't work after all. And, most depressing, many African-Americans will decide that if even Barack Obama - with all his conspicuous gifts - could not win, then no black man can ever be elected president.

But what of the rest of the world? This is the reaction I fear most. For Obama has stirred an excitement around the globe unmatched by any American politician in living memory. Polling in Germany, France, Britain and Russia shows that Obama would win by whopping majorities, with the pattern repeated in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America. If November 4 were a global ballot, Obama would win it handsomely. If the free world could choose its leader, it would be Barack Obama.

The crowd of 200,000 that rallied to hear him in Berlin in July did so not only because of his charisma, but also because they know he, like the majority of the world's population, opposed the Iraq war. McCain supported it, peddling the lie that Saddam was linked to 9/11. Non-Americans sense that Obama will not ride roughshod over the international system but will treat alliances and global institutions seriously: McCain wants to bypass the United Nations in favour of a US-friendly League of Democracies. McCain might talk a good game on climate change, but a repeated floor chant at the Republican convention was "Drill, baby, drill!", as if the solution to global warming were not a radical rethink of the US's entire energy system but more offshore oil rigs.

If Americans choose McCain, they will be turning their back on the rest of the world, choosing to show us four more years of the Bush-Cheney finger. And I predict a deeply unpleasant shift.

Until now, anti-Americanism has been exaggerated and much misunderstood: outside a leftist hardcore, it has mostly been anti-Bushism, opposition to this specific administration. But if McCain wins in November, that might well change. Suddenly Europeans and others will conclude that their dispute is with not only one ruling clique, but Americans themselves. For it will have been the American people, not the politicians, who will have passed up a once-in-a-generation chance for a fresh start - a fresh start the world is yearning for.

And the manner of that decision will matter, too. If it is deemed to have been about race - that Obama was rejected because of his colour - the world's verdict will be harsh. In that circumstance, Slate's Jacob Weisberg wrote recently, international opinion would conclude that "the United States had its day, but in the end couldn't put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race".

Even if it's not ethnic prejudice, but some other aspect of the culture wars, that proves decisive, the point still holds. For America to make a decision as grave as this one - while the planet boils and with the US fighting two wars - on the trivial basis that a hockey mom is likable and seems down to earth, would be to convey a lack of seriousness, a fleeing from reality, that does indeed suggest a nation in, to quote Weisberg, "historical decline". Let's not forget, McCain's campaign manager boasts that this election is "not about the issues."

Of course I know that even to mention Obama's support around the world is to hurt him. Incredibly, that large Berlin crowd damaged Obama at home, branding him the "candidate of Europe" and making him seem less of a patriotic American. But what does that say about today's America, that the world's esteem is now unwanted? If Americans reject Obama, they will be sending the clearest possible message to the rest of us - and, make no mistake, we shall hear it.


Jonathan Freedland (The Guardian, Wednesday September 10 2008)

Excellent article, en Anglais forcément, mais pas difficile à comprendre...
 

kayt0r

G*3*3*K
ca m'a fait peur... avant que je voie la date.
 
Les choses se précisent pour Obama, c'est clair, mais les enjeux soulevés par l'article sont toujours d'actualité...
 

arsenic

Mr.FunkyFunk
Pas mal de trucs dans l'article qui sont plus d'actualité, le sentiment de beaucoup de gens y est bien expliqué mais la réalité est là : la popularité de Palin qui ne fait que chuter, elle est considérée comme un fardeau pour la campagne de McCain (loin de l'euphorie de son annonce sur le ticket républicain) et même chez les républicains de plus en plus de gens du parti la critiquent ouvertement.

On peut aussi dire que Obama distancie chaque jour un peu plus McCain dans les sondages ...


MAINTENANT oui ça reste les USA et on a souvent droit à des mauvaises surprises avec eux (dans le genre les sondages ne veulent rien dire une fois qu'ils sont dans les urnes), j'ai parfois ce drôle de sentiment que l'histoire va se répéter mais c'est la chance que beaucoup d'américains attendaient et à voir la mobilisation générale (par exemple pour le vote avancé dans certains états) je garde espoir.



(Edit: bon bah pris de court, tiens sinon y a 1 semaine je voulais commander un sweat officiel de la campagne démocrate mais c'est soldout quasiment partout et les sites officiels ne livrent pas à l'étranger =( )
 

Carambar

Elite
Dans la dernière "conférence" de McCain une vieille a pris la parole pour dire qu'elle n'avait pas confiance en Obama, demandant si c'était bien un Arabe.

Il a répondu que non et que c'était quelqu'un de très respectable etc
(Dans la suite du débat le fait qu'il dise que Obama était quelqu'un de bien avec un beau parcours lui a valu d'être hué par les gens présents).

Donc faut pas sortir l'image du contexte, pas mal de gens présents au meeting étaient des crétins.
Put* ! Avec des gens qui font le raccourci entre son nom Hussein et l'idée de terroriste c'est pas étonnant que Bush se fasse élire la dernière fois. Voila que donne une masse mal éduquée. Qu'on en prenne graine ici parceque sans changement de la part des socialistes on va se retrouver envahi par des KK (Kevins Kretins, pour faire la distinction avec les Kevins normaux).
 

Carambar

Elite
MAINTENANT oui ça reste les USA et on a souvent droit à des mauvaises surprises avec eux (dans le genre les sondages ne veulent rien dire une fois qu'ils sont dans les urnes), j'ai parfois ce drôle de sentiment que l'histoire va se répéter mais c'est la chance que beaucoup d'américains attendaient et à voir la mobilisation générale (par exemple pour le vote avancé dans certains états) je garde espoir.
Ouais mais il faut se dire que les dernières élections étaient serrées genre 50/50. Dans ce cas de figure, une manipulation de votes aurait pu faire pencher la balance d'un côté comme de l'autre.

Ce qui est curieux cette fois ci c'est que les pro-républicaines accusent "ACORN" de truquer les enregistrements de personnes physiques pour les votes (on dis que Mickey Mouse en ferait partie :-D ).
 

arsenic

Mr.FunkyFunk
Pour revenir avec les liens à la con inventés par l'équipe de McCain, comme quoi Obama avait fréquenté pendant sa jeunesse un terroriste islamiste, je voyais encore au journal des vieilles ricaines qui étaient interviewés par France 2.

"Hmm moi je n'ai pas confiance en Obama, qu'est ce qu'il va se passer si il est élu et qu'on découvre qu'il a des liens avec Al Qaeda, ce serait terrible"
"Tu dis ça parce qu'il est noir!"
"... Non"
"Menteuse, tu penses ça à cause de sa couleur de peau"

:-D
 

arsenic

Mr.FunkyFunk
Pom pom pom, plus que 5 points de différence entre les 2 candidats.
Y avait un débat intéressant hier sur France 2 "Si Obama devenait président".
 

zoheir

cvm.mangaleet()
We've tried it John McCain's way. We've tried it George Bush's way. It hasn't worked. Deep down, Senator McCain knows that, which is why his campaign said that "if we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose."

That's why he's spending these last few days calling me every name in the book. I'm sorry to see my opponent sink so low. Lately, he's called me a socialist for wanting to roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans so we can finally give tax relief to the middle class.

By the end of the week, he'll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in Kindergarten.
 
By the end of the week, he'll be accusing me of being a secret communist because I shared my toys in Kindergarten.[/I]

Mais c'est de la névrose psychotique a ce stade la ! :gne:
 

electrik

Touriste
Obama mérite de gagner mais attention à l'effet Bradley
avec une avance qui a diminué dans les derniers jours ca fait vraiment peur
ca m'étonnerait vraiment pas que Mc Cain l'emporte sur le fil
 
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